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What To Do When They Won’t Fold

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Number of posts : 21Location : Prince George

PostSubject: What To Do When They Won’t Fold   Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:38 pm

What To Do When They Won’t Fold
from Noted Poker Authority by Ed Miller

How do you beat a guy who won’t fold? It’s a question I hear asked frequently at the no-limit hold’em table, usually after T-5 suited has made a flush on the river or a pair of fours has called a river bluff. Maybe you’ve even asked it once or twice. I have an answer. I can’t prevent the non-folders from frustrating you from time to time, but I can help you get the better of them over the long haul.

First, here’s a general tip: Be willing to gamble a little. Waiting for a sure thing is not the best plan. The guy who won’t fold is usually the most profitable opponent at the table. You’re going to miss out on the party if you snug up too much and wait to catch a big pair or flop a set. I mention this first because it’s my experience that tightening up is exactly how most players react to a non-folder. It’s ridiculous when the loosest guy at the table has trouble getting action, but I’ve seen it many times. You’re going to get the guy’s money by playing with him, not by waiting and waiting.

I’m not suggesting that you go crazy. But you have to be willing to put some money at risk. Guys who don’t fold create lots of big pots, and if things don’t go your way you could lose a few of them in a row. You should be okay with that possibility. If you’re not, you will struggle to be the winner at no-limit hold’em that you could be. Having said that, I have two specific tips for handling the guy who never folds.
Get Money In Preflop

Some people simply won’t fold preflop. They’ll limp in for $5 in a $2-$5 game and then, without much thought, call $100 more after a raise and reraise. They’ll do it with J-7 suited or 9-8 offsuit just as soon as they’ll do it with something better. How do you handle someone like that?

The answer is simple. With all your big aces and medium to big pocket pair hands, you make an enormous raise after he’s limped in. The more confident you are that you won’t run into aces or kings from someone else at the table, the bigger your raise can be.

For example, say Mr. Nofold limps in. Everyone folds to you on the button, and you have A-J offsuit. Make a huge raise. I usually start at around 10 times the big blind ($50 in a $2-$5 game) and increase my raise sizes over time to see how my target reacts. Occasionally the blinds will have a montser hand and make you pay, but most of the time you’ll be playing a big pot with a big advantage.

Two factors make this big raise extremely profitable. First, if you stick to hands like A-J and 8-8 or better, you will easily win more than half the time just by the relative strength of your hand over his. His 8-4 suited will draw out on your A-Q sometimes, and it might hurt because the pot is so large, but you’ll be winning well more than your share of these confrontations. Second, you usually have a big advantage when you get the rest of the money in. By putting $100 in the pot preflop, it’s not difficult to get your remaining $400 in with T-T against 8-4 on a 8-7-2 flop. So you aren’t just gettiing the best of it preflop, you also have the postflop edge for even bigger money. It all adds up to a huge advantage for you.
Milk Draws On The Turn

Some opponents are sensible enough not to call any old preflop raise with any old hand, but they become very attached to certain hands once they’ve hit the flop. Some players, for instance, will play any open-ended straight draw or flush draw to the river for any amount of money. For example, I recently played a hand where I bet $200 on the turn, my first opponent moved all-in for $700, and my second opponent called the $700 cold with Q I love you 3 I love you on a T I love you 8 :diamond: 4 I love you 7 :club: board. He played every draw this way, calling all bets big and small to the river.

The best way to beat these players is to milk them on the turn. The turn is the best street for punishing those who love to draw. On the flop there are two cards to come and the drawing hand isn’t a big underdog. For instance, Q I love you 3 I love you is only a 46-54 dog against A :club: T :spade: on a T I love you 8 :diamond: 4 I love you flop. You can do better.

For obvious reasons, the river is a terrible street to try to milk someone holding a draw. The turn is the best. If the turn card puts three to a flush on board, you can back off. But if it’s a blank card that’s unlikely to have completed a draw, drop the hammer.

Here’s an example. It’s a $2-$5 game and your opponent has $600. A few players limp in including your non-folding opponent. You make it $70 to go in the big blind with Q :diamond: Q :spade: . This is a raise size your target has been calling reliably. He calls, and everyone else folds.

The flop is J I love you T I love you 7 :club: . You bet $100 and your opponent calls. You could bet an even smaller amount if you wanted. On a very drawish flop like this one, your opponent can hold numerous hands that are only a modest underdog to your overpair. So a smaller bet doesn’t forfeit much value and leaves more left for the turn where you could have a much bigger advantage.

The turn is the 3 :diamond: . You move all-in for $430. Your opponent will call with all his flush draws and hands like K-J, Q-9, J-9, 8-7, and so forth. You are a major favorite over these hands, and this bet alone could net you over $200 of profit on average. Every so often you will walk into two pair or better, but if he’s calling with any and every drawing hand it’s a gamble that’s heavily tilted in your favor.

If the turn card had been the 8 :diamond: instead, then of course you would play more cautiously. The advantage of waiting for the turn is that you get to see what the card is before you put your money in. If it’s a good card for you, you bomb the pot. If it’s a bad card, you don’t. Your opponent, on the other hand, will happily put his money in either way. It’s almost like getting to see your hand in blackjack before you put your bet down.

Against guys who won’t let go of draws, don’t make the mistake of making small turn bets. The turn is your money round, and you should milk it for all it’s worth.

[This article appeared in the April 21, 2010 issue (Vol. 23, No. 8 ) of Card Player.]
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Number of posts : 742Location : Ottawa

PostSubject: Re: What To Do When They Won’t Fold   Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:48 pm

There's some good info in here. Thank you for sharing it. I'm sure it will make me think a little harder lol!
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Number of posts : 18Location : west coast

PostSubject: Re: What To Do When They Won’t Fold   Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:43 am

Well I grin and bare and fall back on the saying of the odds in the long run even out. I get sucked out on allot and also have done a few suck outs.

Just learn to play with cash and time you can afford to lose.

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